Overview of Introducing - Undisclosed: TJ Weekly - Jason Flom
In this episode of Undisclosed: Toward Justice, Rabia and Colin interview Jason Flom—music executive turned wrongful-conviction advocate and founder of Lava for Good—for a wide-ranging conversation about how he entered innocence work, the impact of his podcasts, and why he believes media can meaningfully shift criminal-legal outcomes. The discussion moves from his personal origin story to broader issues like the misuse of rap lyrics at trial, junk science in courtrooms, and the power of storytelling to drive reforms, clemencies, and exonerations.
Jason Flom’s path from music executive to innocence advocate
A chance newspaper story changed everything
- Flom says his activism began when, at age 32, he saw a newspaper story about Stephen Leonard, who was serving 15-to-life for a nonviolent first-offense cocaine possession charge in New York.
- Leonard’s case struck him as deeply unjust, especially because:
- the warden, sentencing judge, and even Geraldine Ferraro had supported clemency efforts;
- Flom could personally relate because of his own history with drugs and near-misses with the criminal legal system.
- He helped get legal assistance, and when the motion succeeded, he says he realized: “Now I know what to do with the rest of my life.”
Why the work felt personal
- Flom describes having had brushes with police and substance-related risk, saying he believed he “could have been” one of the people trapped by the system.
- That experience, plus sobriety, pushed him toward sustained advocacy for incarcerated people.
Wrongful Conviction and the podcast impact
How the podcast started
- Flom says he did not immediately jump on the Serial wave, but by 2016 someone in the podcast business suggested he start one.
- That led to Wrongful Conviction, which he says has grown to:
- 570+ episodes
- around 60 million downloads
- He credits the show with helping free people, influence clemency efforts, and shape public understanding.
Real-world influence
- Flom says the podcast has been cited in:
- legislation in at least three states — Illinois, Indiana, and Washington
- clemency advocacy and exoneration efforts
- He emphasizes that podcasting alone does not free people, but it can be a powerful part of a larger ecosystem of attorneys, journalists, advocates, and public pressure.
A broader mission
- He argues that one hidden value of the show is that it may be influencing jurors in real time—helping them resist prosecutorial spin and bad expert testimony.
Rap lyrics and criminal trials
Strong opposition to using lyrics as evidence
- Rabia raises the issue of prosecutors using defendants’ song lyrics as evidence of guilt.
- Flom strongly rejects the practice, calling it absurd to treat creative writing as proof of criminal conduct.
- He says lyrics are evidence of creativity, not guilt.
Maryland’s law gets praise
- He applauds Maryland’s PACE Act and similar legislation limiting the use of lyrics in court.
- He also references the execution of James Broadnax in Texas, saying lyrics appear to have played a role in a conviction he believes was wrongful.
Junk science in the courtroom
The “Junk Science” series
- Flom highlights Junk Science, a Lava for Good show with Josh Dempsey that examines forensic methods that have been misused in criminal trials.
- Topics discussed include:
- arson
- bite marks
- blood spatter
- boot-print evidence
- tool-mark analysis
- shaken baby syndrome
- hair microscopy
- fingerprint analysis
Key critique: forensic certainty is often overstated
- He argues that many forensic methods were sold to juries as far more definitive than they actually are.
- In particular, he points to:
- flawed FBI hair analysis
- the dangers of shaken baby syndrome diagnoses
- the fact that some “experts” present subjective opinion as scientific certainty
Robert Roberson and shaken baby syndrome
- Flom mentions visiting Robert Roberson on Texas’s death row.
- He frames Roberson’s case as a prime example of how shaky forensic assumptions can lead to extreme punishment, including death sentences.
Bone Valley, Leo Schofield, and the problem of the wrong suspect
How Bone Valley began
- Flom says journalist Gilbert King approached him about turning the Leo Schofield case into a podcast.
- He agreed quickly because he admired King’s work, including Devil in the Grove.
Why the show matters
- Flom praises Bone Valley for its deep narrative structure and immediate impact.
- He says the show illustrates a recurring tragedy in wrongful convictions:
- when the state targets an innocent person, the true perpetrator often remains free.
- He notes that Bone Valley’s upcoming season, “Devil’s Quarry,” will focus on a different wrongful-conviction case and is set to release on June 10.
Exonerees, resilience, and the “grace” many carry
A recurring pattern
- Flom says one of the most surprising things he has learned is how many exonerees emerge from prison with remarkable humility and a desire to help others.
- He gives examples of people who came home and immediately worked for others still inside.
Why some people make it out
- He theorizes that many innocent people never get the chance to tell their stories because prison breaks them mentally or emotionally.
- Those who do get out often seem to possess extraordinary resilience and purpose.
Michelle Murphy and the human cost of wrongful conviction
- Flom mentions Michelle Murphy, who was wrongfully convicted in Oklahoma and later exonerated with DNA evidence.
- He describes her case as heartbreaking and says her story remains deeply relevant.
Other projects to check out
Erased
- Flom recommends Erased, a historical true-crime drama in the Lava for Good feed.
- He describes it as:
- the story of the first murder trial in American history
- featuring Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr
- a more theatrical, entertaining listen than some of the heavier wrongful-conviction projects
Key takeaways
- Jason Flom’s shift from music executive to innocence advocate began with one newspaper story and has become a decades-long mission.
- Podcasts have become a serious force in wrongful-conviction advocacy, not just for awareness but for real legal impact.
- Using rap lyrics as criminal evidence is, in Flom’s view, deeply flawed and often prejudicial.
- Many forensic techniques once treated as reliable are now widely recognized as junk science.
- His projects—especially Wrongful Conviction, Bone Valley, and Junk Science—aim to expose systemic failures and support people fighting to prove innocence.
Notable quote
- “Now I know what to do with the rest of my life.” — Flom, describing the moment he won his first wrongful-conviction-related case and committed to the work permanently.