Overview of Jon Batiste + Suleika Jaouad: WHAT IS ENOUGH?
This episode of We Can Do Hard Things features a wide-ranging, tender conversation with musician Jon Batiste and writer/artist Suleika Jaouad. They talk partnership and collaboration on the road, creativity versus commerce (the “big money” question), ambition and the internal “beast,” creative injury and anxiety, spiritual practice, and practical ways they protect their marriage while working together. The tone is intimate, candid, and practical — a mix of creative philosophy and usable strategies for artists, partners, and anyone wrestling with “what is enough.”
Guests & context
- Suleika Jaouad — New York Times bestselling author (Between Two Kingdoms; The Book of Alchemy), visual artist, three-time cancer survivor, writer of the Isolation Journals (Substack); appears in the documentary American Symphony.
- Jon Batiste — Seven-time Grammy winner and Academy Award-winning composer and musician; album Big Money; scored Beethoven Blues; subject of American Symphony.
- Setting: conversation on the road (Nashville/tour context) hosted by Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach on We Can Do Hard Things.
Key topics discussed
- Working and touring as a married creative couple: benefits, pitfalls, and how work can take over relationship dynamics.
- Structure vs. improvisation: how Suleika’s writerly, planned approach and Jon’s improvisational musical instinct rub against and enrich each other.
- Art + money: defining “enough,” resisting fame/metrics as a measure of value, navigating capitalism while staying true to creative purpose.
- The “beast” (ambition/drive): naming, facing, and managing internal monsters that push for more.
- Creative injury and anxiety: how criticism, rejection, or early humiliations shape creative lives; anxiety as part of the creative impulse but also a limiter.
- Spiritual practice: how faith and daily practices center creativity and moral choices.
- Conflict-resolution practices in relationship: habits they use to stay connected when conflict arises.
Notable anecdotes & highlights
- Tour panic → improvisational breakthrough: Suleika describes a moment in Chicago when Jon wanted to change the show structure 30 minutes before stage time, which led to a panic attack but ultimately produced a favorite, improvised performance.
- Creative injury story: Suleika recounts an eighth-grade teacher/psychologist reaction to a submitted novella that kept her from showing work publicly until her early 20s.
- Couple’s shorthand: they use the code word “lunch meat” as a cue to double-down on tenderness when one partner is tempted to withdraw or shut down.
- Philosophical catalyst for Big Money: Jon frames the album as a response to societal priorities (mammon/wealth) and the spiritual consequences he observes.
Notable quotes & insights
- “You have to stare [the beast] in the eye and let it know its place.” — on confronting ambition and internal monsters.
- “A mosaic is a conversation between what’s broken.” — Suleika on how creativity assembles and dialogues with brokenness.
- “A genius is the one who sounds most like himself.” — quoted in conversation as a way to define creative authenticity.
- On perception vs. reality: Jon notes the temptation to measure worth by how one is perceived rather than internal truth or service.
Main takeaways
- Collaboration in intimate relationships can amplify creativity — but it can also become an idol or third party in the relationship if left unchecked. Regular reevaluation and boundary-setting are essential.
- Define what “more” and “enough” mean for you. Ambition without a clear, personal definition of purpose risks turning into an insatiable monster.
- Creative anxiety and early rejection (creative injury) shape artists’ habits. Techniques like writing first drafts by hand (in a journal) can help skirt self-consciousness.
- Spiritual or regular reflective practice can act as gesso — protecting the creative core from external noise and perception-driven identity.
- Simple, concrete relational tools (safe words/code words; slowing a fight down; naming energy) help prevent sabotage via unacknowledged emotional dynamics.
Practical action items & recommendations
- Define your “enough”: sit down with your partner or alone and write what “enough” looks like in creative output, money, time together, and spiritual life.
- Face your beast: name the internal driver (ambition, perfectionism, craving for perception) and set rules for when it’s helpful and when it’s harmful.
- Try a creative-first draft ritual: use journals or private formats (handwriting) to write or make art that “doesn’t count” publicly to reduce self-editing.
- Create a crisis/connection code word with your partner (like “lunch meat”) to signal emotional withdrawal and to ask for tenderness instead of escalation.
- Reassess work-life overlap: if your work dominates conversations and relationship life, schedule non-work time and check in on whether collaboration is serving the relationship or becoming its substitute.
Who will get the most from this episode
- Artists and creatives wrestling with how to monetize work without losing soul.
- Couples who work together or want practical tools for emotional connection under pressure.
- Anyone interested in the intersection of spirituality, creativity, and contemporary cultural critiques about money and meaning.
Recommendations mentioned
- Watch the documentary American Symphony (features Jon and Suleika).
- Listen to Jon Batiste’s album Big Money.
- Follow Suleika’s writing (Isolation Journals on Substack) and her memoirs Between Two Kingdoms and The Book of Alchemy.
Final note: the conversation blends practical relationship strategies with spiritual and creative philosophy — useful both as inspiration and as an actionable guide for navigating art, ambition, and intimacy.