Overview of #252 — Matt Bissonnette on The Sean Ryan Show
This episode features Matt Bissonnette (the former DEVGRU / “SEAL Team 6” operator who wrote No Easy Day under the pseudonym Mark Owen) in his first public interview revealing his identity. Host Shawn Ryan and Bissonnette cover Bissonnette’s upbringing, SEAL career (BUD/S → DEVGRU), major operations including the raid that killed Osama bin Laden (Operation Neptune Spear), and the lengthy legal/DOJ aftermath surrounding his first book. The conversation mixes operational detail, personal reflection, faith and family, and a blistering critique of military leadership and the pre-publication review process.
Key takeaways
- Matt Bissonnette publicly revealed his identity for the first time on this show. He was a DEVGRU operator on the mission that killed Osama bin Laden.
- He wrote No Easy Day (as Mark Owen). The Department of Justice pursued him over failure to get pre-publication review; after long legal fights he was forced to return his book earnings and is on a 15-year payment plan ($≈3,800/month).
- Bissonnette asserts hypocrisy and double standards: senior leaders and political figures (and Hollywood access) were treated differently than enlisted operators.
- He describes the bin Laden raid in operational detail (helicopter crash into the compound, tactical decisions inside the house, preparation for evidence collection) and confirms they collected photos/DNA and ultimately disposed of the body at sea.
- His second book No Easy Way — focused on what happened to him after No Easy Day — was submitted for government review and has been slow‑rolled (months without approval), which he believes is deliberate suppression.
- Practical advice for veterans/authors: get qualified legal counsel, document legal advice and communications, and follow pre-publication rules.
Life & career — concise timeline
- Childhood: Raised in Aniak (Aniak/AniaK) — a small Alaska village where his parents were Christian missionaries. Graduated high school with a class of three.
- College in Los Angeles, then enlisted in the U.S. Navy (served 14 years total).
- BUD/S graduate → deployed multiple times to Iraq and Afghanistan with SEAL Teams, then screened for and passed DEVGRU (Green Team) selection and joined Red Squadron.
- Deployments included early Iraq invasion, multiple Baghdad operations, time in Afghanistan, integration with Army special operators (Delta/Army Tier-1 counterparts), and participation in high-profile missions (e.g., Captain Phillips effort — he was present on that mission though not one of the shooters).
- Part of the team selected to plan and execute Operation Neptune Spear (May 2011). Injured/retired shortly after (decided to leave the teams in the months around the raid).
- Post-service: wrote No Easy Day (Mark Owen), consulted for TV (CBS SEAL Team), produces content (YouTube/farming project) and is writing No Easy Way.
Training & DEVGRU culture (Green Team → Red Squadron)
- Green Team is portrayed as a tougher selection than BUD/S for him: focus shifts from “don’t quit” to high-performance, decision-making under stress, and operator skill evaluation.
- Squadron culture: Red Squadron described as demanding, black-and-white standards — “meet the standard or don’t.”
- DEVGRU offered more mature operators, advanced equipment, and a higher ops tempo; operators often integrated with Army units on certain missions.
Notable operations (selected)
- Iraq / Baghdad: “Baghdad SWAT” — rooftop little‑bird insertions, urban assaults, close fights; he describes his first lethal engagement during a compound raid in Baghdad.
- Afghanistan: multiple deployments; different terrain and tempo vs Iraq.
- Captain Phillips rescue: he was part of the mission force (not a shooter). He criticizes cinematic simplifications and notes the real operation involved many more people and complexity.
- Operation Neptune Spear (Bin Laden raid) — major details Bissonnette gives:
- Briefed as one of 24 senior operators to plan a ground-assault option two weeks after returning from deployment.
- The mission plan was rehearsed (rare for him — his deployments usually did not include full rehearsals).
- Helicopter crash: his helicopter hit/“settled with power” during insertion and propped on a compound wall, narrowly avoiding catastrophic rotor strike — Bissonnette attributes reduced lift to an op-date change (delay) that raised temperature/density altitude (reportedly because of scheduling considerations in Washington).
- Chalk Two (the other assault group) landed outside the compound after seeing the downed Helo and prudently avoided attempting a risky high hover-to-roof insertion.
- Inside the compound: tactical decisions included slow, methodical combat-clearance (vs classic hostage‑rescue assault run‑in); a pivotal moment involved an operator whispering "Khalid" to draw out a son (Khalid bin Laden) who was then engaged; similarly a head at a doorway was engaged on the 3rd floor.
- Bissonnette states he fired at the target during the raid; the body was photographed, DNA-sampled, moved downstairs, bagged, and ultimately transferred to a carrier and buried at sea (he supports burial at sea to avoid shrine creation).
- He describes the physical and emotional aftermath: little immediate celebration within the team, lack of sleep, and a sense of detachment — “are you sleeping?” was a candid, emotional check between teammates two days after the mission.
- Evidence collection: they washed the face, photographed, gathered drives and electronics, and were mindful about documentation; multiple cameras were used.
Aftermath — legal and institutional fallout
- No Easy Day: publisher timing (published before election / before some other portrayals) triggered DoD/DOJ backlash. DOJ alleged failure to seek pre-publication review; Bissonnette says his initial civilian attorney advised differently (and later admitted malpractice).
- Legal timeline and consequences:
- DOJ brought aggressive legal pressure — long interrogations, threats, and legal spending forced Bissonnette to spend large legal fees.
- He ultimately paid back his remaining book proceeds and later sued his attorney for malpractice — he won a malpractice settlement; DOJ still demanded money and put him on a 15-year repayment schedule ($3,800/month).
- He says the government deleted photos from his returned computers and that enforcement felt vindictive and punitive.
- Double standards: Bissonnette cites perceived hypocrisy — senior leaders (and Hollywood) had access and published or appeared publicly; some senior officers were given latitude he wasn't.
- Second submission: Bissonnette submitted No Easy Way (his account of the harassment and aftermath) for required government review. He reports the review has been delayed/sit-on for months; he believes this is intentional suppression of his account.
- Attorney perspective (Tim Parlatori): confirms many of Bissonnette’s claims, details how the review process is opaque and slow, explains the legal mechanics of consent decrees and limitations on relief, and recommends documenting counsel and seeking experienced legal help if a former operator plans to publish. Tim notes DOJ’s ability to respond to lawsuits often motivates them to act (i.e., filing a suit can prompt action) but outcomes are uncertain.
Themes, perspectives & personal notes
- Faith & family: Bissonnette describes faith as central. He leaned on his Christianity during dark stretches after leaving the teams and through legal attacks. He stresses the “four Fs” taught by his father — family, friends, fun, faith.
- Leadership critique: he criticizes senior military leadership for political self-promotion, promotion-chasing, and decisions that increased operational risk (e.g., restrictions on dogs/night ops). He says leadership sometimes prioritized optics and awards over troop welfare.
- Community & identity: leaving the teams was harder than making BUD/S or Green Team. The loss of identity, community, and support produced profound emotional and practical challenges. He emphasizes the importance of community and that many veterans suffer when severed from the tribe.
- Bureaucracy & hypocrisy: Bissonnette portrays U.S. government and DOD entities selectively enforcing rules (pre-publication review) and using legal pressure in ways that seemed vindictive and political.
Practical advice & action items (for veterans/authors)
- If you plan to publish: seek experienced counsel who understands pre-publication review and DoD process; document all advice (emails, memos) and keep records.
- Submit required pre-publication review if you are under obligation — even if others seem to get away without it, enforcement is inconsistent and risky.
- If reviewed and delayed: a FOIA request or carefully timed legal action may force movement; consult experienced counsel before suing — there are strategic considerations.
- Keep copies/backups of any material you provide counsel; preserve evidence of legal advice (very important if disputes arise).
- Get mental-health/community support on separation from service; reach out to veteran networks and therapists experienced with special-operations culture.
Notable quotes / memorable lines
- “Delete me.” — the two-word text Bissonnette says he received from a former commanding officer after attempting to explain his situation (used to illustrate perceived leadership rejection).
- “The first casualty of a lawsuit is the truth.” — observation about litigation dynamics.
- “I wasn’t sleeping… I feel normal.” — simple, raw exchange between teammates two days after the raid, underscoring the emotional shock.
- “I didn’t kill bin Laden.” / “I shot him.” — complex admission/context about participating in the engagement; conversation portrays the difficulty of assigning simplistic “I killed him” language to a team action.
Where to learn more / follow-up resources
- Books: No Easy Day (Mark Owen — Bissonnette’s first book) and his forthcoming No Easy Way (subject to review). He encourages buying directly via his website to avoid middlemen: mattbissonnette.com (per the episode).
- Media: Bissonnette worked as consultant/executive producer on CBS’s SEAL Team series; he also produces YouTube content and runs a farm project (Wagyu cattle) that he’s turning into content.
- Legal perspective: Tim Parlatori (guest attorney) recommends consulting experienced counsel if you’re a veteran planning to publish or speak publicly about operational experiences.
Disclaimer / context note: this summary condenses a long, wide-ranging interview. Some names and specific details were paraphrased for clarity (e.g., DEVGRU/Green Team/Red Squadron terminology). The interview contains strong opinions and Bissonnette’s perspective on events, the institutions involved, and people; readers should consider other sources for additional viewpoints and corroborating detail.