Overview of Cognitive Scientist Maya Shankar On Navigating Unexpected Life Changes, The Neuroscience Of Identity, & How To Unlock Your Next Self
Rich Roll interviews cognitive neuroscientist Maya Shankar about why involuntary change (loss, injury, diagnosis, failed plans) feels so disorienting, what happens in the brain and mind during those moments, and practical, research-backed strategies to move through change into a better, more resilient self. The conversation weaves neuroscience (affective forecasting, default mode network, locus of control), psychological frameworks (narrative identity, possible selves, moral elevation), and actionable tools (self-affirmation, psychological distancing, mental time travel) alongside vivid life stories from Maya’s research and her own experiences (losing her violin career, pregnancy loss).
Key takeaways
- Involuntary change is uniquely disorienting because it shatters our illusion of control and threatens identity.
- We chronically mispredict our future feelings and selves (affective forecasting / end-of-history illusion) — we underestimate how much we will change.
- Denial and rumination are natural short-term coping strategies; they can help survival but become harmful when prolonged.
- Change can be reframed as revelation: it exposes hidden beliefs, values, and capacities and creates rare conditions for growth.
- Moral elevation — witnessing others’ moral courage or kindness — can expand what we imagine ourselves capable of and “rewire” motivation.
- Practical cognitive strategies (self-affirmation, psychological distancing, mental time travel, third-person self-talk) calm the nervous system, reduce rumination, and open possibilities for new selves.
Notable neuroscience & psychological concepts explained
- Affective forecasting / End-of-history illusion: we think future selves will resemble present selves; we’re poor at estimating personal change.
- Illusion of control: we overestimate how much we steer life outcomes; loss exposes limits of control and fuels terror about uncertainty.
- Narrative identity: the stories we tell about who we are; they prioritize coherence and can block nuance and change.
- Possible selves: hoped-for, feared, and expected versions of ourselves that guide imagination and behavior. Change alters which possible selves seem available.
- Default Mode Network & awe: experiences of awe quiet self-immersive brain activity, creating psychological distance and easing rumination.
- Moral elevation: witnessing exceptional moral acts inspires reassessment of personal potential and can catalyze new trajectories.
Practical tools & strategies (what to do next)
- Self-affirmation (5–10 minutes): write values and roles that matter and are NOT threatened by the change to broaden identity and reduce denial.
- Define identity by "why" not only "what": ask why you do the things you love (connection, craft, creativity) and seek alternative outlets that express that why.
- Psychological distancing:
- Use third-person self-talk (“Maya, what do you need?”) to reduce emotional immersion.
- Recall events as an impartial observer or coach yourself as you would a friend.
- Mental time travel:
- Project forward (hours, years) to test how permanent the current distress will feel; look backward to past worries that faded.
- Curiosity & scientist mindset: treat beliefs about yourself as hypotheses. Ask: What evidence would convince me to change my mind? How did I arrive at this belief?
- Seek moral elevation: intentionally witness acts of courage, kindness, resilience (stories, literature, biographies) to expand what you imagine possible.
- Experimentation sandbox: allow open-ended exploration (read, talk, try activities) without forcing immediate career/identity outcomes. Fiction can be an “identity lab” to try on new selves safely.
- Limit rumination: recognize loops (seeking cognitive closure that isn’t available) and apply metacognitive/ distancing techniques to interrupt them.
- Acceptance + pathway: acceptance (radical acceptance of reality) is painful but more usable when paired with actionable strategies that show a possible positive horizon.
Action checklist (quick)
- Pause: breathe, name emotions (what am I feeling?).
- Do a 5–10 minute self-affirmation list.
- Write your “why” for activities that matter and list alternate ways to express it.
- Use third-person self-talk in the next triggered moment.
- Schedule small experiments (read a new genre; talk to someone outside your circle; take a short course).
- Collect stories of moral elevation (podcasts, essays, documentaries) and re-expose yourself regularly.
Notable quotes / memorable lines
- “Control is basically an illusion.”
- “Change is the ultimate lever for growth and transformation.”
- “Denial in the short term actually confers a lot of benefits — it’s a strategy for survival.”
- “If we see change as revelation, it will build our natural curiosity in the face of change.”
- “Moral elevation cracks open our imagination about what is possible for us.”
Who is Maya Shankar (short bio)
- Yale and Stanford-trained cognitive neuroscientist, former Juilliard violinist.
- Behavioral science advisor in the Obama White House.
- Host of the podcast A Slight Change of Plans and author of The Other Side of Change.
- Research and interviews focus on real-world change stories and translating cognitive science into practical coping strategies.
Recommended resources from the episode
- Maya’s book: The Other Side of Change (practical toolkit + stories).
- Maya’s podcast: A Slight Change of Plans (long-form interviews on life-change).
- Practice starters: self-affirmation prompts; third-person reflections; curated moral-elevation stories (look for biographies, acts of forgiveness, resilience narratives).
Final perspective (why this matters)
Unexpected, involuntary change is painful and destabilizing because it threatens control and identity. But the same disruption can illuminate hidden beliefs, expose new values, and create conditions that make transformative growth possible. With deliberate strategies — psychological distancing, identity expansion (focus on why), curiosity, and seeking moral exemplars — people can move through change not merely to endure it, but to “get to the other side” as a different and often better version of themselves.
Episode produced by Rich Roll; for more details and links visit the episode page at richroll.com.