Overview of Kai Bird on Roy Cohn, a Founding Father of Donald Trump’s America
This New Yorker Radio Hour conversation between David Remnick and historian Kai Bird centers on Bird’s biography American Scoundrel, which traces Roy Cohn’s rise from a young anti-communist prosecutor to one of the most toxic and influential figures in American politics—and, ultimately, a formative mentor to Donald Trump. Bird argues that Cohn was not just a sinister operator of the McCarthy era, but a blueprint for a style of politics built on grievance, cruelty, image manipulation, and shameless denial.
Roy Cohn’s Rise and Political World
Early life and ambitions
- Cohn came from a Jewish, Democratic Bronx family, with a father who was a judge.
- Bird emphasizes that Cohn grew up resentful of the establishment and was shaped by a mother who fed him conspiratorial stories and taught him to distrust power.
- He attended Columbia, was rejected by white-shoe law firms, and turned his ambition into a hard-edged political identity.
McCarthy-era enforcer
- By his early 20s, Cohn had become a key aide and strategist for Senator Joseph McCarthy.
- Bird portrays Cohn as more than a sidekick: he was the architect behind much of McCarthy’s anti-communist aggression.
- He helped target communists, alleged “Jewish communists,” and gays in the federal government, while also attacking Dwight Eisenhower as insufficiently anti-communist.
The Rosenberg case
- Cohn played a major role in the prosecution of Julius and Ethel Rosenberg.
- Bird says Cohn engaged in improper ex parte communications with the judge and pushed hard for the death penalty.
- The case is presented as an example of Cohn’s willingness to bend or break ethical norms to score ideological victories.
The Cohn Playbook: How He Shaped Trump
Meeting Donald Trump
- Trump first met Cohn in 1973 at Le Club in Manhattan.
- Bird says the more plausible version is that Trump sought Cohn out, not the other way around.
- Trump was already facing a federal discrimination suit over Black renters, and Cohn advised him to fight rather than settle.
The “do not apologize” doctrine
Bird argues that Cohn gave Trump a lasting political and personal operating system:
- never settle
- never apologize
- never admit wrongdoing
- attack aggressively
- use the press as a weapon
- create confusion rather than clarity
Practical help
Cohn also helped Trump materially:
- pushed legal strategies around Trump’s housing discrimination case
- helped with zoning and tax issues tied to major real estate projects like the Commodore Hotel and Trump Tower
- introduced Trump to Manhattan society and the gossip ecosystem he craved
Shared style and psychology
- Bird says both men thrived on victimhood, resentment, and public combat.
- Trump admired that Cohn had been indicted multiple times and still “got away with it.”
- Cohn taught Trump that shame is weakness and that power comes from defiance.
Roy Cohn’s Later Life, Secrecy, and Hypocrisy
Closeted sexuality and public persecution
- Bird acknowledges Cohn was a closeted gay man, but notes that many closeted men in the 1950s did not become Cohn.
- He helped persecute gay people during the Lavender Scare while privately living a very different life.
- Bird frames this as both a product of the era and a deeply damaging moral contradiction.
AIDS and denial
- Cohn denied having AIDS publicly even as he was receiving treatment.
- Bird says Cohn likely got access to experimental AZT through his connections, including Nancy Reagan.
- He also discusses testimony and reporting suggesting Cohn continued exploiting young men sexually while ill.
A troubling new account
- The book includes the story of Richard Kerr, who said he was trafficked as a teenager and brought to Cohn for a sexual encounter.
- Bird describes the account as difficult to verify but ultimately credible, and notes that Kerr later won recognition in Irish courts regarding the trafficking.
The End of the Relationship
Trump’s withdrawal
- As Cohn’s health declined after his AIDS diagnosis in 1984, Trump pulled back.
- Bird says Trump did not fully sever ties, but the relationship became less intense.
- Trump still attended Cohn’s farewell dinner and later his memorial service.
A rare emotional moment
- According to reporter Peter Manso’s transcripts, Trump was seen crying at Cohn’s memorial.
- Bird and Remnick treat this as striking evidence that Cohn really mattered to Trump—emotionally as well as politically.
Main Takeaways
- Roy Cohn was a major force in mid-century American political dirty tricks, not just a supporting character.
- Bird sees Cohn as a precursor to Trump-era politics: accusatory, anti-establishment, media-savvy, and unconcerned with truth.
- Cohn’s legacy lives on less through formal institutions than through a style of politics built on grievance, spectacle, and defiance.
- Trump’s public persona, Bird argues, was profoundly shaped by Cohn’s example.
Notable Insight
“The rules are for small men.”
Bird uses that attitude to explain both Roy Cohn’s life and Donald Trump’s political persona: a worldview in which power belongs to those who ignore norms, weaponize weakness, and treat ethics as a nuisance.