Overview of The Bulwark Podcast
This episode is a two-part political deep dive. In the first segment, Tim Miller and Bill Kristol reflect on Lindsey Graham’s political legacy, the implications of his removal from the Senate, the coming confirmation fight over Todd Blanche, Trump’s Iran policy, ICE violence, and the administration’s increasingly authoritarian posture. In the second segment, Ro Khanna recounts a harrowing trip to the West Bank, describes what he saw as pervasive settler violence and Palestinian displacement, argues for immediate U.S. action, and closes by acknowledging he was wrong in endorsing Graham Plattner.
Bill Kristol on Lindsey Graham and the Senate
Graham’s legacy and political downfall
- Kristol describes Lindsey Graham as:
- Very smart and quick to learn policy
- Politically shrewd, especially inside the Senate
- Warm, funny, and easy to be around
- He says Graham’s greatest flaw was his deep love of politics and gamesmanship, which helped lead him to align with Trump after being one of Trump’s clearer Republican critics.
- The discussion emphasizes the tragic contrast between Graham’s earlier work on:
- Foreign policy and Iraq
- Immigration reform with McCain
- Anti-Trump resistance
and his later role as a loyal Trump sidekick.
Senate math and the Todd Blanche confirmation
- With McConnell reportedly absent and Graham gone, the Senate GOP margin shrinks further, making confirmation math tighter.
- Kristol argues Democrats should use Blanche’s hearing to focus heavily on:
- Jeffrey Epstein and the Trump administration’s cover-up
- The broader corruption of the Justice Department
- The Comey indictment and weaponization of law enforcement
- He believes even if Blanche is confirmed, Democrats can still weaken him politically and force Republicans into uncomfortable votes.
Trump, Iran, Ukraine, and the politics of instability
Iran and the Strait of Hormuz
- Miller and Kristol discuss Trump’s ongoing bombing campaign against Iran and his comments about becoming a “guardian” of the Strait of Hormuz.
- Kristol argues this creates a dangerous, potentially endless commitment and contradicts Trump’s anti-forever-war rhetoric.
- They note the economic risk:
- Higher oil prices
- A persistent “risk premium” for shipping through the strait
- Political fallout from a conflict that appears unresolved and escalating
A broader loss of control
- Miller argues Trump is losing control of major crises:
- Iran
- Russia/Ukraine
- Inflation and energy prices
- Kristol agrees this kind of ongoing instability can be politically damaging, especially if voters sense the administration is improvising rather than governing.
ICE, deportation, and authoritarianism
The Houston killing and ICE abuses
- Kristol condemns the killing of an immigrant in Houston by ICE officers and says the incident was:
- Unnecessary
- Unprovoked
- Followed by lying and cover-up
- He says the Trump administration’s mass deportation effort has led to wholesale dehumanization and civil-rights violations.
“Abolish ICE” as a response to mass deportation
- Kristol says he understands why people now use “abolish ICE” rhetorically, even if some immigration enforcement functions would still need to exist under another agency.
- His core argument:
- Mass deportation produces abuse by design
- The government is acting with impunity toward immigrants
- Democrats should keep the issue front and center
DOJ and press intimidation
- They also criticize Trump administration subpoenas aimed at New York Times reporters over reporting on the Qatari Air Force One controversy.
- Kristol calls it classic authoritarian behavior:
- Intimidating the press
- Punishing leaks
- Firing or pressuring people across the government
- Creating a “whole of government” intimidation campaign
Ro Khanna on the West Bank
What happened on the trip
- Khanna describes being detained for about 75 minutes by extremist settlers and then boxed in further by the IDF.
- He says settlers:
- Surrounded their vans
- Brandished M4s
- Kicked tires
- Mocked and taunted them
- He credits an American embassy official with helping secure their release.
- His central point: if they were Palestinians, they likely would not have been allowed out.
What he saw in the West Bank
Khanna says the trip was a fact-finding mission to see Palestinian life firsthand, not a stunt.
He describes:
- Burned and destroyed villages
- Settler violence and illegal outposts
- Palestinians facing checkpoints, vandalism, beatings, and intimidation
- American citizens of Palestinian descent losing rights and safety
- A system where even wealthy Palestinian Americans are not spared abuse
Area A, B, and C
Khanna explains the West Bank’s administrative structure:
- Area A: nominally Palestinian-administered
- Area B: joint administration
- Area C: Israeli-controlled
His takeaway is that the distinctions matter less on the ground than the reality that Palestinians face arbitrary power and insecurity across all areas.
Bethlehem, Christian towns, and water access
- He visited Bethlehem, Beit Sahour, and Beit Jala.
- He says the towns are increasingly surrounded by illegal settlements, making movement and tourism difficult.
- He highlights severe water inequality:
- Palestinians: roughly 50 liters per day
- Settlers: around 400 liters per day
- UN minimum for normal life: 100 liters per day
Khanna’s political conclusions
What should change
Khanna argues the U.S. should immediately push for:
- Removal of illegal outposts
- Arrests of violent settlers, including people like Yanan Levy
- More civil enforcement to protect Palestinians
- Permission for Palestinian towns to drill and access water
U.S.-Israel policy
- He says the U.S. should stop giving military aid to countries committing serious human-rights abuses.
- He supports a Palestinian state alongside a secure Israel, with equal rights and dignity for everyone.
Reaction to Rahm Emanuel
- Khanna says he appreciated Rahm Emanuel’s speech in Israel, especially comments on:
- Sanctions on settler-linked banks
- The “arrogance of power”
- He says it did not go far enough, but still helped move the conversation.
Khanna on endorsing Graham Plattner
Admitting the mistake
- Khanna says he got it wrong by endorsing Graham Plattner.
- He says he should have listened to his wife and paid closer attention to warning signs about Plattner’s treatment of women.
- His takeaway:
- Give people the benefit of the doubt, but not when there are clear signs of sexual violence or abuse.
- Vetting systems need to improve.
Main takeaways
- Graham’s political story is presented as tragic: talented, funny, and influential, but ultimately consumed by Trump-era loyalty politics.
- Democrats should use Blanche’s hearing to spotlight Epstein, DOJ corruption, and executive lawlessness.
- Trump’s Iran policy looks open-ended and politically risky.
- ICE is presented as a major civil-rights and authoritarianism issue, not a routine enforcement matter.
- Khanna’s West Bank trip is the emotional center of the episode: he argues settler violence and Palestinian dispossession are normalized, and he wants immediate U.S. pressure on Israel to change course.
- Khanna also models public accountability by admitting his mistake on Plattner and arguing for better vetting.