OKC Gets Wobbled, Cleveland’s Done, and Knicks Nirvana Is Here (Maybe) With Zach Lowe and Sean Fennessey

Summary of OKC Gets Wobbled, Cleveland’s Done, and Knicks Nirvana Is Here (Maybe) With Zach Lowe and Sean Fennessey

by The Ringer

1h 40m•May 25, 2026
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Overview of OKC Gets Wobbled, Cleveland’s Done, and Knicks Nirvana Is Here (Maybe) With Zach Lowe and Sean Fennessey

Bill Simmons is joined by Zach Lowe and Sean Fennessey for a playoff-heavy NBA conversation centered on Thunder-Spurs Game 4 and the Knicks’ dominant run against the Cavaliers. The big themes are injury fallout, matchup adjustments, star pressure, and whether the Thunder are actually built to solve Victor Wembanyama long-term. The episode also veers into role-player all-time rankings, the value of team depth, and whether the Knicks’ surge is becoming a true title path.

Thunder vs. Spurs: Game 4 changed the series

Victor Wembanyama dominated

  • Wembanyama was the clear best player in Game 4, and not just by a little.
  • The conversation repeatedly returns to how much trouble he creates for Oklahoma City on both ends.
  • He looked more aggressive and decisive than in Game 3, attacking the rim more and refusing to settle.

Oklahoma City lost its secondary creation

  • The Thunder were missing key creators, especially Jalen Williams and A.J. Mitchell, which made Shai Gilgeous-Alexander’s job much harder.
  • With fewer playmakers, OKC looked much more stagnant:
    • fewer transition opportunities
    • fewer open threes
    • more late-clock, forced possessions
  • Bill and Zach both felt the Thunder’s offense looked “depleted” without those helpers.

The Spurs’ defensive adjustment worked

  • San Antonio softened its trapping of Shai and used a more layered, late-help approach.
  • Instead of full high doubles, the Spurs waited until he got deeper into the floor and then sent bodies from different angles.
  • That made the Thunder’s reads harder and their kick-out threes less clean.

San Antonio’s guards kept the ball under control

  • The Spurs won a turnover battle that mattered a lot.
  • De’Aaron Fox looked good enough to steady the offense.
  • Stephon Castle was praised for an excellent two-way game and strong defensive presence.
  • The message: if the Spurs keep turnover pressure down, they can keep games close against OKC.

Officiating and physicality were a subplot

  • Zach thought Game 2 and Game 4 each had officiating “tilts” in opposite directions.
  • In Game 4, the Spurs benefited from a bigger free-throw advantage and were allowed more physicality on the perimeter.
  • The crowd’s “flopper” chants at Shai added to the atmosphere and the perception of a tense, heated series.

Pressure rankings from the pod

  • Shai Gilgeous-Alexander: under pressure to solve the defensive changes and carry the offense without much help.
  • Wemby: under pressure because he’s already the difference-maker in the series.
  • Chet Holmgren: questioned because his shot volume and overall impact have been too low for a series of this importance.
  • OKC’s guards: need clean games and low turnovers.

What this could mean for OKC long term

The big question: is OKC built to beat Wemby?

  • The hosts floated a serious big-picture concern: if the Thunder can’t solve a Spurs team that is still growing, what does that mean for the next several years?
  • That led to a speculative but pointed conversation about whether OKC would eventually need a major roster reset if this matchup keeps going badly.

Giannis speculation came up — but it’s a huge swing

  • The discussion drifted into hypothetical “if we have to change the roster” territory, including a potential Giannis chase.
  • Zach’s point: if you make that kind of move, it has to be because you’re truly convinced the current roster cannot win a title against Wemby-led Spurs teams.
  • Both agreed that’s not a decision to make casually.

Knicks vs. Cavaliers: New York is rolling

Sean Fennessey was all-in on the Knicks’ surge

  • Sean came in ecstatic and relieved, describing the run as a long-awaited payoff for years of frustration.
  • The Knicks’ recent stretch has him thinking they can truly win the title.

Why the Knicks feel different now

  • The team finally looks cohesive:
    • Jalen Brunson remains the engine and late-game closer
    • Mikal Bridges has become more assertive offensively
    • Karl-Anthony Towns is fitting into a more coherent role
    • OG Anunoby provides two-way impact when healthy
    • Josh Hart gives them chaos, toughness, and all-around production
    • Landry Shamet has emerged as a valuable bench piece
  • Their depth and flexibility are the biggest changes from earlier in the season.

Coaching and roster construction were a major topic

  • The Knicks’ ability to play deeper into the bench and adapt game-to-game was praised.
  • The host and guests framed the front office as unusually smart and cutthroat:
    • they’ve made several bold moves that initially looked risky
    • many of those decisions have turned out right
  • Sean emphasized that the franchise now feels “normal” again — just good, stable, and competitive.

Why Brunson is becoming an all-time Knick

  • The conversation got reverent about Brunson’s place in Knicks history.
  • The argument: he’s not just a good player; he’s becoming a franchise-defining figure.
  • His ability to take over fourth quarters has become part of the team’s identity.

Cleveland looks finished

  • The tone around the Cavaliers was bleak.
  • Bill suggested they may be in offseason-reset territory if the series ends in a sweep.
  • Evan Mobley was the one Cavs player Bill was most willing to keep if forced to choose.

Role-player Mount Rushmore and other NBA side quests

Robert Horry came up first

  • The group debated the greatest role players ever.
  • Robert Horry was unanimously treated as the standard.
  • Other names mentioned:
    • Andre Iguodala
    • Derek Fisher
    • Michael Cooper
    • Danny Green
    • James Posey
    • Tayshaun Prince
    • Mario Elie
    • Josh Hart as a modern candidate

The key distinction

  • The hosts kept drawing a line between:
    • true role players
    • and really good players who simply get labeled that way
  • Their rough definition: the best role players are the guys who can change a series without needing the offense to run through them.

Bottom line

  • Thunder-Spurs: Game 4 made the series feel unstable again, with Wembanyama’s dominance and OKC’s injuries creating real doubt about the Thunder’s ability to control the matchup.
  • Knicks-Cavs: New York’s run looks increasingly real, and Sean Fennessey is fully in belief mode.
  • League-wide takeaway: The playoffs are starting to shape a bigger conversation about roster construction, star pressure, and which teams are actually built for the next era.

What to watch next

  • Injury updates on Jalen Williams and A.J. Mitchell
  • Whether Shai can adapt to San Antonio’s coverage
  • If Chet Holmgren can raise his offensive level
  • Whether the Knicks finish the Cavs and keep their title momentum rolling