Startups For the Rest of Us

Is perfectionism quietly sabotaging your career or startup dreams? In this episode, Rob Walling talks with his brother, Russ Walling, about the mindset and habits that shape long-term success from overcoming perfectionism to building resilience and learning to make tough calls without all the answers. They discuss how growing up with a shared emphasis on hard work, sports, and achievement created both strengths and struggles and how lessons learned in construction, poker, and entrepreneurship still apply to building great companies today. Episode Sponsor: Hiring engineers shouldn’t feel like sorting through AI-polished resumes. G2i cuts through all of that. They’ve pre-vetted over 8,000 engineers, all with 5+ years of real experience, and they run live, human-led technical interviews to verify actual skills. No time wasters. No guesswork. Just solid developers who can deliver. G2i is trusted by companies like Meta, Microsoft, and countless bootstrapped founders who need to move fast without making expensive mistakes. Get a 7-day free trial and $1,500 off when you mention Startups for the Rest of Us at https://www.g2i.co/rob  Topics we cover:  (04:10) – How early lessons in hard work and sports shaped mindset (07:46) – Learning to be comfortable being uncomfortable (12:03) – The dark side of perfectionism (16:51) – Overcoming fear of failure and learning to take risks (19:04) – What poker taught Russ about risk and decision-making (21:52) – The Armageddon Beer story  (28:53) – Why both brothers chose entrepreneurship (31:08) – Redefining leadership: collaboration over fear (35:24) – The three traits that drive lasting success (43:45) – Why hard work is still the ultimate differentiator Links from the Show:  Discretion Capital M&A Advisory for SaaS Founders doing $2-25M The SaaS Playbook by Rob Walling Rob Walling (@robwalling) | X  If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

How would a 2x unicorn founder build his next startup with AI? In this episode, Rob Walling sits down with Jason Cohen, founder of SmartBear and WP Engine, to talk about building billion-dollar businesses, the future of AI for founders, and what makes small companies thrive even when the odds are stacked against them. They dig into the early days of WP Engine, how Jason develops his frameworks, why execution beats ideas, and Jason’s framework for identifying “hidden multipliers” small, systematic changes that make an outsized impact. Episode Sponsor: Hiring engineers shouldn’t feel like sorting through AI-polished resumes. G2i cuts through all of that. They’ve pre-vetted over 8,000 engineers, all with 5+ years of real experience, and they run live, human-led technical interviews to verify actual skills. No time wasters. No guesswork. Just solid developers who can deliver. G2i is trusted by companies like Meta, Microsoft, and countless bootstrapped founders who need to move fast without making expensive mistakes. Get a 7-day free trial and $1,500 off when you mention Startups for the Rest of Us at https://www.g2i.co/rob  Topics we cover:  (03:45) – The core idea behind Hidden Multipliers (09:24) – Writing as a way of thinking (12:34) – Why sharing your frameworks matters (14:14) – The origin of “Designing the Ideal Bootstrap Business” (18:10) – The hidden weak links in every startup (21:25) – De-risking and niching down effectively (24:56) – Why narrowing your focus expands your reach (26:24) – Building WP Engine in a commodity market (29:37) – Out-executing funded competitors (31:52) – Finding product–market resonance through pricing (32:40) – How brand actually develops (37:54) – Building in the age of AI: pitfalls and opportunities (41:52) – The three categories of AI startups today (46:02) – Why 10x improvement is the new baseline for differentiation (49:19) – The real moat in the age of AI Links from the Show:  MicroConf US 2026 – Portland, April 14–16, 2026  Promo Code: Rob50 for $50 off The SaaS Playbook PREORDER Hidden Multipliers by Jason Cohen Designing the Ideal Bootstrapped Business with Jason Cohen A Smart Bear Blog Jason Cohen (@asmartbear) | X  If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

Have you ever pushed so hard on an idea that you missed the signal to change direction? In this solo episode, Rob Walling covers a wide range of topics and dives into three areas every founder should master: how to develop an editorial eye (or “taste”), the difference between persistence and obstinance, and why focus, not diversification remains the hardest, most valuable entrepreneurial skill. Episode Sponsor: Hiring engineers shouldn’t feel like sorting through AI-polished resumes. G2i cuts through all of that. They’ve pre-vetted over 8,000 engineers, all with 5+ years of real experience, and they run live, human-led technical interviews to verify actual skills. No time wasters. No guesswork. Just solid developers who can deliver. G2i is trusted by companies like Meta, Microsoft, and countless bootstrapped founders who need to move fast without making expensive mistakes. Get a 7-day free trial and $1,500 off when you mention Startups for the Rest of Us at https://www.g2i.co/rob  Topics we cover:  (1:55) – How to develop an “editorial eye” (and why it matters for founders) (7:03) – When to get out of the way and let true experts lead (8:07) – Why your product must start with a real problem (not just an idea) (9:11) – Paul Graham’s The Right Kind of Stubborn: persistence vs. obstinance (12:03) – Are you attached to your goal or just your first idea? (13:44) – How great founders adapt to new data without losing momentum (14:44) – Sam Parr on why “constant switching will kill you” (16:30) – Focus as a founder’s hardest and most valuable skill (16:49) – Why “Triple, Triple, Double, Double” isn’t dead (despite VC takes) (18:34) – The problem with clickbait startup advice Links from the Show:  MicroConf Europe 2026 – Join us in Reykjavík, Iceland (Sept 21–23) - Promo Code: ROB50 The Mom Test by Rob Fitzpatrick Paul Graham: “The Right Kind of Stubborn” Sam Parr (@thesamparr) | X  Harry Stebbings (@HarryStebbings) | X Rob Walling YouTube Channel The SaaS Playbook If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes

Can your 9-to-5 job secretly prepare you to be a founder? In this solo episode, Rob Walling shares 11 unexpected lessons from his own day jobs, from courier to electrician to engineering manager, and how each role quietly taught him skills that shaped his success as a SaaS founder. He dives into the value of curiosity, self-education, and learning to lead before you ever start a company. Episode Sponsor: If you’ve got a strong vision but no technical partner, you need more than a “vibe-coded” MVP, you need a real foundation. That’s where Designli comes in. Their two-week SolutionLab Prototyping Sprint pairs you with a product owner, designer, and developer to turn your idea into a beautiful, clickable prototype you’ll be proud to show investors or early users. Right now, Startups for the Rest of Us listeners get $3,800 off their sprint. Get started at designli.co/fortherestofus Topics we cover:  (2:03) – Why every day job can teach entrepreneurial skills (4:44) – Lesson #1: Figuring things out when instructions are unclear (7:27) – Lesson #2: Learning to respect other people’s time (9:05) – Lesson #3: How early self-education compounds over time (11:33) – Lesson #4: Embracing hard, unglamorous work (14:09) – Lesson #5: Why experience always beats credentials (16:42) – Lesson #6: Letting the buck stop with you (17:44) – Lesson #7: Knowing when to cut corners (and when not to) (20:11) – Lesson #8: Finding the right people to work with (21:33) – Lesson #9: Managing and motivating people as a learned skill (23:53) – Lesson #10: Turning hiring and firing into Founder superpowers (26:11) – Lesson #11: The value of exposure to well-run systems Links from the Show:  MicroConf Mastermind Matching – Apply before January 16th The SaaS Playbook by Rob Walling Good to Great by Jim Collins Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen R. Covey Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill MicroConf Rob Walling @robwalling) | X If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review:

What are the can't-miss AI tools for SaaS founders? In this episode, Rob Walling sits down with Craig Hewitt, founder of Castos, to dive deep into Craig’s “100 Days of AI” YouTube series. They discuss the lessons learned from exploring the latest AI tools for founders, why ChatGPT might not be the best option for SaaS entrepreneurs, and which AI platforms are actually moving the needle.  Rob and Craig also chat about the realities of AI agents, the challenges of building a second product after hitting a growth plateau, and Craig’s approach to evaluating new opportunities as he looks to expand beyond podcast hosting. Episode Sponsor: AI is transforming how people discover brands and Ahrefs is helping SaaS companies stay ahead. They’ve just launched Brand Radar, a new tool that lets you track your visibility in AI platforms like ChatGPT, Perplexity, and Google’s AI Overviews. See how you stack up against competitors, monitor reputation, and build authority across search, social, and AI. No more cobbling together tools. Ahrefs brings it all into one powerful SaaS marketing platform, backed by 15+ years of real-world web data and marketing-savvy AI. Try it free at ahrefs.com/awt. Topics we cover:  (03:28) – 100 Days of AI YouTube series, biggest surprises and key takeaways (08:20) – Claude Code, ChatGPT, and Manus: Which AI tools work best for founders (13:00) – Practical AI workflows in content production and automation (18:35) – AI agent cuts customer support in half (21:27) – Burnout and breakthroughs from publishing 100 videos in 100 days (25:43) – Craig’s new AI projects and what’s next (30:14) – Three new product ideas under evaluation (33:09) – The pros, cons, and emotions behind launching a second product Links from the Show:  MicroConf US 2026- April 12-14, 2026 · Portland US TinySeed’s SaaS Institute Claude Code (by Anthropic)  Manus  Creator Hooks Cursor HelpScout DocsBot LinkBerry.ai – Craig’s new tool for LinkedIn content creation Castos Craig Hewitt | YouTube Craig Hewitt | LinkedIn Craig Hewitt (@TheCraigHewitt) | X If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

Is hiring a sales and marketing co-founder the secret sauce for technical SaaS founders? In this solo episode, Rob Walling tackles a fresh batch of listener questions, starting with one of the most common dilemmas for technical founders: should you hire a sales and marketing co-founder or go it alone? He introduces his “Core Four” mental model, the essential skills every SaaS team needs early on, and shares insights on dealing with enterprise clients who keep moving the goalposts, handling a flood of non-ICP users, and a heartfelt message from a listener who just exited their startup. Want to get your question answered? Drop it here. Episode Sponsor: Are you looking to hire world-class engineering talent without the headache? You should check out today’s sponsor, G2i. They give you access to over 8,000 pre-vetted developers, no AI-generated resumes, no time wasters, just experienced engineers with at least five years of proven results. G2i handles the vetting for you, including customized live technical interviews so you can see how a candidate would actually work with your team. Trusted by companies like Meta, Microsoft, and Shopmonkey, and especially helpful for first-time founders who need to get hiring right the first time. As a listener, you’ll get a 7-day free trial plus $1,500 off your first invoice when you mention this podcast. Head over to https://www.g2i.co/microconf  to get started. Topics we cover:  (3:11) – Should you find a co-founder for sales and marketing? (5:29) – What are the Core Four SaaS Skills? (11:41) – Can you succeed without mastering all four, or should you outsource? (16:39) – Why sales-led growth might outperform self-serve SaaS (21:48) – Dealing with big companies who change your contract terms (27:06) – What to do with thousands of unqualified signups Links from the Show:  Discretion Capital – M&A for B2B SaaS Exit Strategy by Sherry & Rob Walling  MicroConf - SaaS Community TinySeed - SaaS Institute If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

Can a small team really bootstrap to $8M ARR in a crowded SaaS market? In this episode, Rob Walling chats with Philippe Lehoux about how he and his co-founders bootstrapped Missive, a collaborative email and team inbox tool. They deep dive into landing early customers, unique horizontal positioning, content-driven growth, enterprise sales, and how to compete with VC-backed competition.  Episode Sponsor: Are you a non-technical founder with solid revenue and real traction, but your technology is holding you back? You should check out today's sponsor, Designli. They specialize in helping founders like you who are stuck with messy code, unclear roadmaps, or a dev team that just doesn’t get it. And for listeners of the pod, Designli is offering their Impact Week completely free. That’s a one-week, no-obligation audit where their team dives into your code, your design system, and your product roadmap to show you exactly what’s working, what’s broken, and what needs to happen next. If it’s a fit, you can move on to SolutionLab, a three-week sprint where Designli takes over your codebase and architects a real roadmap for growth, led by a full-time, cross-functional team. If your tech is the bottleneck to your next stage of growth, check them out at https://designli.co/fortherestofus.  Topics we cover:  (2:05) – Missive’s $8M ARR journey and email pivot (6:02) – Early idea and first customers (11:16) – Unique positioning: horizontal vs. vertical (13:41) – How they prioritize features (15:39) – Why they stayed bootstrapped and decline funding (20:25) – Content strategy and “vs” pages (21:39) – Affiliate program driving 30% of growth (25:24) – Challenges and benefits of being horizontal (30:28) – Enterprise sales and pricing (32:06) – Scaling with SOC 2 compliance Links from the Show:  SaaS Institute  MicroConf YouTube channel Missive Philippe Lehoux | LinkedIn Philippe Lehoux (@plehoux) | X If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify