Overview of Masters of Scale — "How to make smarter changes, with cognitive scientist Maya Shankar"
This episode features cognitive scientist Maya Shankar in conversation with host Jeff Berman. Shankar—former senior policy advisor for social and behavioral sciences in the Obama White House, now a senior director of behavioral economics at Google and host of the podcast A Slight Change of Plans—discusses her new book The Other Side of Change, her personal story of identity-shift after a career-ending violin injury, and evidence-based strategies for navigating major life and organizational changes. The episode mixes human stories, practical tactics, and behavioral science concepts that help individuals and leaders make smarter transitions.
Key takeaways
- Identity resilience: Define yourself by why you do things (values, motives) rather than only by what you do; this helps future-proof identity when roles change.
- People underestimate future change (the "end of history illusion"); expect and plan for continued personal evolution.
- Small, consistent steps build new identities and skills (identity priming). One minute/day or tiny milestones can produce outsized changes over time.
- Break large goals into short cycles to avoid the "middle problem" (motivation drop in the middle of long projects).
- Simple behavioral nudges in policy or organizations—defaults, wording tweaks, aligning incentives—can dramatically increase uptake and impact.
- Practices that support coping with grief and change: self-affirmation/gratitude lists and experiences of awe (including moral elevation).
Notable stories & examples
- Personal: Maya trained as a concert violinist, suffered a career-ending pinky injury at 15, and reconstructed her identity by asking what she loved about music (connection), not only the instrument.
- Policy wins:
- School lunch program: switching from opt-in to opt-out dramatically increased enrollment (leveraging default effects).
- VA benefit email: changing language to “you earned this” increased take-up by 9% (leveraging the endowment effect).
- Transformational individuals:
- Duane (prison): started writing one poem daily → became a published poet and later a Yale Law graduate and MacArthur Fellow.
- Christine: faced progressive vision loss, learned cooking through tiny, regular practice (e.g., cutting an orange, scrambling an egg).
Science & concepts explained
- End of history illusion: people recognize past change but underestimate future change; we think “I’m basically done changing.”
- Endowment effect: people value things more when they feel they own or earned them — useful in messaging.
- Default effect: people stick with pre-set options; opt-out increases participation.
- Peak–end rule (Kahneman): memories weight peaks and endings more heavily; shaping endings improves remembered experience and future engagement.
- Middle problem: motivation spikes early and late in a goal but often collapses mid-course; shorten cycles to reduce mid-goal drop-off.
- Identity priming: performing a small action consistent with a new role (e.g., write 1 minute/day) helps you embody that identity.
- Awe and moral elevation: experiences that transcend self reduce self-focus and expand what we imagine we can become; witnessing moral beauty can spark change.
Practical action steps (for individuals)
- Give yourself compassion after loss (job, relationship, health); allow grief.
- Inventory your durable assets: skills, relationships, experiences, vantage points—not just job titles.
- Start tiny: commit to the smallest possible first step that signals identity (1 minute/day, one email, one CV bullet).
- Break a long goal into short cycles (days or weeks) to avoid the middle problem and sustain momentum.
- Engineer better endings: attach a small, pleasant ritual to the end of difficult tasks to improve recollection and re-engagement.
- Create a self-affirmation list: 3 things you’re grateful for + 3 things you appreciate about yourself (Hoffman practice variant).
- Seek out moral beauty/awe—stories or people who expand what you see as possible for yourself.
Practical action steps (for leaders & organizations)
- Be a policy/organizational entrepreneur: build small proof-of-concept wins to scale a practice (Maya’s “grassroots” approach in government).
- Align incentives: show stakeholders how behavioral interventions help them achieve their stated goals; frame collaboration as complementary.
- Engage across levels: junior staff often know the operational details—invite them into solution design.
- Institutionalize successes to survive leadership turnover (embed practices into bipartisan or cross-functional structures).
- Use simple tests: change default options, tweak wording to evoke ownership, run small pilots and measure uptake.
Selected notable quotes
- “You can future-proof yourself and your identity by defining yourself not simply by what you do, but by why you do that thing.”
- “When life took the violin away from me, my passion for it…was still intact.”
- “Witnessing moral beauty…changes our own understanding of what we’re capable of.”
Recommended resources
- Book: The Other Side of Change — Maya Shankar
- Podcast: A Slight Change of Plans — hosted by Maya Shankar
- Related reading: The Language Instinct — Steven Pinker; work by Daniel Kahneman (peak–end rule); Dacher Keltner on awe and moral elevation.
Final notes
The episode blends personal vulnerability, clear behavioral-science concepts, and actionable tactics relevant to anyone facing disruption—individuals navigating job loss or identity change, and leaders aiming to introduce smarter changes inside large, slow-moving institutions. Maya’s central advice: expect change, take tiny steps that prime new identities, and use simple behavioral tools to make change stick.