Overview of Trump and Vance Pick a Fight with the Pope
This episode of Left, Right and Center (KCRW) centers on three linked themes: President Trump’s public confrontation with Pope Francis over the Iran war and peace messaging (and VP J.D. Vance’s follow-up remarks), the U.S.–Iran confrontation (including a U.S. naval blockade of the Strait of Hormuz), and broader geopolitical and political-trend fallout. The second half features Sarah Isger discussing her new book Last Branch Standing, which explains the current role and public view of the U.S. Supreme Court.
Key takeaways
- Trump publicly attacked Pope Francis after the pope called for peace; the exchange escalated with an AI-generated “Jesus-like” image of Trump and inflammatory social posts. (Transcript misnames the pope at times; it is Pope Francis.)
- VP J.D. Vance publicly admonished the pope at a Turning Point USA event, prompting criticism that he overstepped and misread his role and audience—especially among young Catholics and conservative youth.
- The U.S. ordered a naval blockade of Iranian ports in the Strait of Hormuz aimed at pressuring Iran back to talks. Panelists describe this as tactically effective but strategically risky and potentially precedent-setting in international maritime law.
- Panel consensus: Trump’s personal style—thriving on chaos—may be politically costly now, particularly with younger conservatives and rising Catholic youth, who are unsettled by the war and by the president’s tone and imagery.
- Global elections (e.g., Hungary, Canada) were discussed as evidence that economic conditions and broken promises (affordability) — not strictly ideology — are driving recent political shifts.
- Sarah Isger’s book argues the Supreme Court’s centrality is a symptom of failure by the other two branches: the Court is often deciding who should decide, not resolving policy itself. She stresses public misperception of the Court as the “final answer” and highlights the Court’s internal dynamics beyond simple partisan labels.
Who said what — panel positions and notable points
- David Green (host): Frames the episodes’ themes and moderates the discussion.
- Mo Alethi (left): Argues the pope is fulfilling his moral duty by calling for peace; criticizes Trump for personalizing a general plea. Warns that the chaos strategy is losing political efficacy and notes Iran’s long timeline advantage.
- Mike Dupke (right, former Trump WH communications director): Critiques picking a fight with the pope as politically unnecessary and harmful with allies; accepts some ambiguity in U.S. strategy may be intentional but warns about chaos becoming a dangerous precedent and about losing younger conservative support.
- Both panelists: Concerned about the blockade’s unintended geopolitical effects (e.g., China interpreting it as a precedent for using force to control waterways).
- Sarah Isger (guest, legal commentator/author): Explains the Court’s institutional role, argues the judiciary is overburdened because Congress and public processes are failing, and reframes the Court as three groups by judicial style (incrementalists vs. originalist radicals vs. middle/consensus-builders) rather than a simple 6–3 ideological split.
Topics discussed (short bullets)
- Pope Francis’s call for peace and Trump’s public reaction (insults, deleted AI image).
- J.D. Vance’s remarks at Turning Point USA; public reception and political risks.
- U.S.–Iran negotiations, military escalations, and the naval blockade of the Strait of Hormuz.
- Political effects on voting blocs: young conservatives, young Catholics, seniors.
- International elections and the role of economic conditions (affordability) in electoral outcomes (Orban’s loss in Hungary, Canada’s Liberal majority).
- The Supreme Court’s role today: institutional function, why it feels so central, Federalist Society’s influence, and internal justice dynamics.
- Anecdotes from the Court (clerks’ culture, oral-argument habits).
Notable quotes & soundbites
- Pope Francis (paraphrase used on the show): “Stop. It is time for peace. Sit at the table of dialogue and mediation.”
- President Trump (on social media): called the pope “weak on crime” and reportedly wrote, “if I wasn't in the White House, [the Pope] wouldn't be in the Vatican” (the transcript records a misnaming of the pope).
- Trump also posted/retweeted an AI image of himself in a Jesus-like pose — widely criticized.
- J.D. Vance at Turning Point USA: “If you're going to opine on matters of theology, you've got to be careful.”
- Mike Dupke quoted the Game of Thrones line: “Chaos is a ladder,” to describe Trump’s political method and Iran’s matching escalation.
Analysis / What to watch next
- Domestic political fallout: Watch Trump’s standing among young conservatives and religious voters (especially Catholics). The exchange with the pope and the Vance remarks could deepen unease among these groups.
- Strait of Hormuz developments: The blockade’s duration, China’s diplomatic/military reaction, and whether it becomes a precedent affecting South China Sea/Taiwan Strait behaviors.
- Negotiation signals from Iran: Whether the blockade and other pressure lead to concrete concessions (e.g., limits on enrichment) or further entrenchment.
- Electoral trends globally: Track whether economic grievances (cost of living, inflation, affordability) continue to drive anti-incumbent sentiment more than ideology.
- Supreme Court politics: Follow whether Congress or voters react in ways that reduce the Court’s outsized role (e.g., legislative fixes, public pressure, proposals for reform).
Recommendations / further reading
- For deeper context on the Supreme Court and the institutional arguments discussed: Sarah Isger, Last Branch Standing (new release).
- Follow news on the Strait of Hormuz, U.S.–Iran talks, and official U.S. policy statements for updates on troop movements and blockade status.
- Monitor polling among young conservatives, evangelicals, and Catholics to gauge how the pope incident and Iran policy affect the Republican coalition.
Episode logistics / guests
- Host: David Greene
- Panelists: Mo Alethi (left), Mike Dupke (right)
- Guest author: Sarah Isger (Last Branch Standing)
- Produced by KCRW / Fearless Media; distributed by PRX
This summary captures the episode’s main arguments, political implications, and the Supreme Court discussion that closes the show.