Overview of Screens without Shame: Jonathan Haidt and Catherine Price
Host Dr. Becky Kennedy sits down with Jonathan Haidt (author of The Anxious Generation) and Catherine Price (author of How to Break Up with Your Phone) to talk plainly and without shame about phones, attention, and kids. They discuss how digital design hijacks attention, the broad harms beyond anxiety (notably declining attention and capacity for effort), practical steps parents can take right away, and a new kids’ book they co-wrote — The Amazing Generation — aimed at inspiring young people to choose real-world fun and freedom over screen addiction.
Key themes and takeaways
- The problem is systemic, not solely moral: apps are engineered (like slot machines) to hijack attention via variable rewards, bright cues, sounds, etc. Expecting willpower alone is unrealistic.
- Attention is our most valuable resource: what we pay attention to shapes our experience, memory, and identity. Phone habits determine how we live our lives.
- Effects extend beyond mental health: Haidt now sees loss of sustained attention, reading, and the ability to do hard, long-term work as central and perhaps the biggest damage of heavy phone use.
- Developmental timing matters: early exposure (pre-puberty) to social media and phones can rewire growing brains. Haidt and Price advocate delaying smartphones and social media (smartphones ~14+, social media ~16+).
- Systems and environments beat willpower: change the “elephant” (habits/environments) via containers, routines, and design adjustments, rather than relying on conscious self-control.
- Phones are relationship and presence blockers: they reduce connection (mealtimes, marriage, infant interaction). The Still Face Experiment highlights how lacking responsiveness harms infants — but repairs and changes can restore connection.
- Hope and activism exist: parents, especially mothers, have mobilized quickly in some places (e.g., school phone bans, policy changes). Phone-free schools show measurable benefits (more laughing in halls, more library checkouts).
Notable data points & examples
- Many undergrads: ~25% spend 4+ hours/day on social media; reducing use restored time for homework, social life, and exploration.
- Survey of high school seniors (since 1970s): percentage agreeing “My life often feels useless” doubled for Gen Z (born after ~1995) around 2012–13—before COVID.
- Policy wins: parents/groups helped pass school phone bans and raised minimum ages in some countries/regions (example: a reference to Australia raising age to 16).
- School outcomes: phone-free schools report increased student engagement and library usage.
Practical, specific recommendations (what parents can start doing now)
- Start with one firm, manageable rule — the one you can enforce without your child’s permission. Examples:
- No screens in the bedroom (Jonathan Haidt’s single best rule).
- Get a standalone alarm clock (Catherine Price’s first change for adults).
- No phones at mealtimes; keep phones out of common areas.
- Create a family charging station outside bedrooms.
- Remove news apps and email from your phone; limit notifications.
- Use accountability: choose a family code word (e.g., “banana” / “asparagus”) your child can say when a parent is distracted by a phone.
- Enlist kids: ask “How do you feel when I use my phone?” and invite them to call you out — framed as helping you live your values.
- Build systems/containers: set concrete habit changes (e.g., phone-free mornings, phone-free dinners, weekly tech-free family time), rather than relying on willpower.
- Start repair conversations with empathy and clarity; use scripts (see below).
- Model incremental change: adults change, children learn. No shame; focus on consistent, informed parenting decisions.
Useful scripts & phrasing you can use
Dr. Becky’s recommended script to announce a hard boundary (adapt to your tone):
- “I want to tell you about a decision I’ve made. I’ve been learning about how having your phone in your room at night can affect sleep and other things. Starting tonight, your phone will no longer charge in your room. I don’t expect you to thank me — I expect you to give me a hard time for a while. I know my job is to make decisions I believe are best for you even if you’re not happy about them. I love you, and we’ll get through this.” Notes: say it with conviction (don’t present it as a question); expect pushback and plan for consistent enforcement.
Quick metaphors & psychology to understand behavior change
- Rider and Elephant: the rational “rider” cannot reliably control the impulsive, reward-driven “elephant.” Change the elephant by building new habits and environments.
- Slot machine analogy: many apps purposely copy addictive features of gambling machines—don’t assume individual willpower can beat system-level design.
- Training pool vs. ocean: teach skills in safe controlled environments; don’t expose developing brains to predatory, high-risk digital environments early (Haidt argues social media for young kids is more like early exposure to hard alcohol than like swimming practice).
Resources and books mentioned
- Jonathan Haidt — The Anxious Generation
- Catherine Price — How to Break Up With Your Phone
- Jonathan Haidt & Catherine Price — The Amazing Generation: Your Guide to Fun and Freedom in a Screen-Filled World (children’s/young readers’ book; aimed at ~9–12 and useful for families)
- Still Face Experiment (developmental research on infant responsiveness)
Rapid-fire takeaways from the guests
- Jonathan’s single rule: No screens in the bedroom — ever.
- Catherine’s first change: Buy a standalone alarm clock and move the phone out of the bedroom.
- Hardest thing for Haidt to live by: being present and honoring a regular tech-free container (e.g., Shabbat-style rest).
- Biggest hope: removing phones from schools and reclaiming education and play.
- Biggest hope (Price): kids’ enthusiasm for becoming “rebels” and choosing real-world friendship, freedom, and fun over tech takeover.
One-page action checklist (first 7 days)
- Buy an alarm clock and remove phones from bedrooms tonight.
- Set up a family charging station in a common area.
- Choose one firm household rule to implement now (e.g., no phones at meals, no screens before school).
- Have one family meeting: explain the decision, share the “why,” and invite kids to help hold you accountable.
- Remove distracting apps/notifications from your phone (news, autoplay apps).
- Pick a non-confrontational code word for kids to use when a parent is distracted.
- Schedule at least one screen-free family activity this week (park, board game, neighborhood bike ride).
Tone & reminder from the episode
- The entire conversation is deliberately nonjudgmental: parents and experts alike admit imperfection. Change is possible and often fast when done with systems, compassion, and consistency. Repair matters — it’s never too late to start and repairs restore relationships.
Closing practical thought
If you walk away with one immediate step: put phones out of bedrooms tonight (adults and kids). If you can’t do that yet, pick some other single, enforceable change and commit to it with conviction — small systems create big changes.