Overview of Better in Person with Bjarke Ingels
In this first episode of Better in Person, Stephen Dubner interviews architect Bjarke Ingels about how he thinks, designs, and chooses projects. The conversation frames architecture as a kind of “pragmatic utopianism” — a discipline that must balance imagination, engineering, economics, and public impact. Ingels comes across as intensely ambitious but unusually collaborative, with a philosophy that favors iteration, openness, and combining seeming opposites to create better solutions.
Key Themes and Takeaways
Architecture as “pragmatic utopia”
- Ingels repeatedly argues that great architecture comes from merging contradictions:
- Utopia + pragmatism
- Creativity + liability
- Idealism + practicality
- He sees architecture not as merely representing reality, but as producing the world we live in.
The value of oxymorons
- Ingels suggests that “oxymorons” are often where good ideas live.
- He uses phrases like “utopian pragmatism” to describe how architecture can create beautiful, ambitious spaces that still work in the real world.
- He connects this to his design method: don’t box ideas into rigid categories too early.
Collaboration over individual credit
- BIG operates with a highly collaborative culture.
- Ingels says he avoids emphasizing whose idea was “the” idea, because that can undermine the team and kill the best solution.
- The goal is to create a process where the strongest concept emerges from many iterations.
Architecture is creative, but not financially rewarded like other arts
- Dubner raises the odd economics of architecture: high training, low average pay, and no royalties.
- Ingels agrees the system has flaws and says even a small royalty model could help.
- He notes that architects often do the work for love of the craft, despite the financial disadvantages.
BIG’s scale and global reach
- BIG now has about 700 architects across seven cities:
- Copenhagen
- New York
- London
- Barcelona
- Los Angeles
- Zurich
- Shanghai
- Ingels describes his role as more creative director than CEO.
Notable Projects and Ideas
VIA 57 West
- Dubner recalls first seeing the New York building as an unusual, almost mysterious structure on the West Side.
- It became a memorable example of BIG’s ability to create forms that feel both striking and city-integrated.
The BQE / Brooklyn Heights proposal
- Ingels describes a plan he pitched to neighbors for the Brooklyn-Queens Expressway:
- Keep the same traffic capacity
- Place the highway more intelligently
- Add a lid and create new parkland
- Potentially offset costs with some development
- He says the community response was unusually positive and that the idea was seen as cheaper and better than the original plan.
Dream commissions
- Ingels says he eventually made a “bucket list” of projects he wanted BIG to pursue:
- Opera house
- Philharmonic
- Airport
- Stadium
- Library
- After openly committing to those goals, BIG won major projects including the Philharmonic in Prague and the airport in Zurich.
What Ingels Believes Makes Great Design
“Yes is More”
- One of BIG’s books is titled Yes is More.
- The phrase captures his philosophy of being for something rather than defining yourself by what you’re against.
- He argues that oppositional thinking can make you a follower in reverse; better to build positive visions.
Design as giving form to the future
- Ingels says the Danish word for design roughly means “form-giving.”
- For him, architecture is about giving shape to what doesn’t yet exist — essentially, giving form to the future.
Architecture as a lifelong craft
- He believes architecture can improve with age, unlike athletics or other fields where physical decline becomes a limiting factor.
- He points to Frank Lloyd Wright and Frank Gehry as examples of architects whose most iconic work came later in life.
Personal Background and Influences
Family and upbringing
- Ingels says both of his parents were highly intelligent in different ways:
- His father was an engineer who helped reverse-engineer fiber optics production.
- His mother had what he jokingly calls “dragon blood.”
- His parents helped steer him into architecture school.
Early ambition and later breakthrough
- He emphasizes that architecture often requires years of credibility-building before one can compete for major projects.
- He says he spent much of his career assembling the experience, team, and reputation needed to earn bigger commissions.
Big Ideas About Cities and New York
New York as a collective artwork
- Ingels sees New York’s skyline not as a collection of individually perfect buildings, but as a shared urban artwork driven by density, commerce, and energy.
- He is more interested in the vitality of the whole city than in preserving a single “classical” aesthetic.
New York and Burning Man
- He compares New York to Burning Man in one key respect:
- Both are places without a single identity or host
- Everyone brings their own energy
- The result is a kind of creative cacophony
Final Impressions
- Dubner presents Ingels as thoughtful, energetic, and unusually articulate about design philosophy.
- Ingels comes across as someone who:
- Thinks in contradictions
- Wants to solve real problems beautifully
- Believes architecture should be public-facing, ambitious, and useful
- The episode’s core message is that architecture is not just about buildings — it is about changing behavior, shaping environments, and imagining better futures.