Overview of Steve Levitt Quits His Podcast, Joins Ours
This episode is a bonus exit interview: Stephen Dubner speaks with Steve Levitt about why Levitt is ending his podcast People I Mostly Admire (Pima), what he learned from five years of interviewing, and what’s next. Key announcements: Freakonomics Radio will republish the entire Pima archive, and Levitt will occasionally guest-host new Freakonomics Radio episodes. The conversation covers Levitt’s pivot from research to education (Levitt Lab and new schools), his thinking on AI in education, favorite and difficult interviews, and how podcasting changed him.
Main takeaways
- Pima is ending (for now), but the full archive will be republished on Freakonomics Radio — follow People I Mostly Admire in your podcast app to get the backlog.
- Levitt will produce occasional episodes for Freakonomics Radio going forward.
- Hosting Pima transformed Levitt: he became a better interviewer, a more voracious consumer of ideas, and regained the discipline of deadlines.
- Levitt’s current passion project is education reform: in-person Levitt Labs (Arizona State campus, plus planned sites near Boston and LA in fall 2026) and experiments in mastery learning.
- On AI in education: AI is double-edged — a phenomenal tool for engaged learners (just-in-time learning) and an equally powerful means for disengaged students to avoid learning.
- The central lever for improvement, Levitt argues, is student engagement; when engagement is solved, AI becomes an amplifier for positive learning outcomes.
Steve Levitt’s arc and why he’s stopping Pima
- How it started: Guest-hosting Freakonomics episodes led to Levitt launching Pima, where he practiced interviewing and explored diverse ideas.
- What he gained: Reading broadly, meeting deadlines, and connecting with people — these broadened his interests and shifted him from an idea-creator to an engaged consumer and synthesizer of ideas.
- Why he’s stopping: Time and new priorities — Levitt is focusing energy on building schools and education projects and feels it’s the right moment to end the podcast run rather than linger too long.
Education: Levitt’s priorities and approach
- Inspiration: Conversations with Sal Khan introduced Levitt to mastery learning — allowing students to move at their own pace until they truly understand concepts.
- Levitt Lab and schools: First school on ASU’s Tempe campus; plans to open two more sites (near Boston and LA) in fall 2026. The aim is to free up time once mastery is achieved and use it for meaningful, engaging activities.
- Pedagogical priorities:
- Celebrate many forms of accomplishment (music, film, engineering, writing) rather than a single A‑grade metric.
- Combat box-checking incentives that kill curiosity and creativity.
- Emphasize engagement — Levitt sees it as the linchpin for whether AI helps or harms learning.
- Recruitment pitch: Levitt tells prospective students directly that current schooling often teaches students to chase credentials rather than love learning — his school aims to reverse that.
AI and education — nuanced view
- Two truths simultaneously true:
- For engaged learners, AI (ChatGPT/Gemini, etc.) is a powerful just-in-time learning tool enabling rapid, deep learning.
- For disengaged learners, AI makes it easier than ever to avoid learning; it can let students “get by” without mastering anything.
- Policy implication: Educational design must focus on engagement and incentive structures to ensure AI amplifies learning rather than undermines it.
Favorite, memorable, and difficult interviews (highlights)
- Favorite/most impactful episodes:
- His daughters Amanda and Lily (episode #46): unexpectedly intimate, revealing conversation.
- B.J. Miller (end‑of‑life care): powerful discussion about death and meaning; Levitt intentionally delayed revealing Miller’s accident to deepen the audio conversation.
- Wendy MacNaughton (artist): a rare meeting of economist + artist that resonated personally for Levitt.
- Yuval Noah Harari: Levitt challenged Harari on storytelling (Sapiens lacks characters), which unlocked a more open conversation — one of Pima’s most downloaded episodes.
- Disappointments / difficult guests:
- Jared Diamond: felt rehearsed and book-driven, less spontaneous.
- Arnold Schwarzenegger: constrained by production demands and scripting; one good moment stood out (egg/bacon anecdote).
- Richard Dawkins: studio interview went well, but a subsequent paid live event faltered when Levitt misread audience expectations (they wanted social/atheist topics rather than detailed science).
- Interview craft: Levitt learned the value of deep preparation — readers of a guest’s work open better conversations even if the interviewer lacks innate extroversion.
What podcasting taught Levitt (lessons)
- Preparation matters: Reading a guest’s work thoroughly changes the dynamic and yields richer conversations.
- Deadlines are disciplinary: Regular production forced Levitt to read more and synthesize ideas faster.
- Interviewing can change you: Being a listener and questioner reshaped his interests and led directly to his education projects.
- Stories and character matter: Personalizing big ideas (making them about people) unlocks better engagement and understanding.
Recommended episodes from Pima (to start with)
- Episode #46 — conversation with Levitt’s daughters Amanda and Lily
- B.J. Miller — end‑of‑life care and confronting mortality
- Wendy MacNaughton — artist interview with surprising chemistry
- Yuval Noah Harari — deep, wide-ranging interview that became a top download
(Levitt’s archive will be replayed on Freakonomics; follow People I Mostly Admire to get the backlog.)
What’s next — for Levitt and listeners
- Levitt will guest-host occasional Freakonomics Radio episodes; his first new episode should arrive in a few weeks.
- He plans to continue pushing education experiments (Levitt Lab) and hopes to use the Freakonomics platform to pursue policy-relevant stories (AI + education, pharmaceutical incentives, etc.).
- Listeners: follow People I Mostly Admire for the archive replay and continue following Freakonomics Radio for new Levitt episodes.
Notable quotes
- “If we can get students engaged, we will have unbelievable results.”
- “I have almost no deadlines in my life… the tension that comes with actually having deadlines… has been a good source of discipline for me.”
- “I finally quit something on time.”
Quick action items
- Follow People I Mostly Admire in your podcast app to get the republished archive.
- Follow Freakonomics Radio for occasional new episodes hosted by Steve Levitt.
- If you care about education reform: read up on mastery learning and Sal Khan’s work; look into Levitt Lab developments at ASU and future sites (Boston and LA, fall 2026).