Overview of Ben Lamm (on de-extinction)
This episode of Armchair Expert features Ben Lamm, co-founder and CEO of Colossal Biosciences, in a wide-ranging conversation about de-extinction, synthetic biology, and the ethics of genetically engineering life. The discussion centers on Colossal’s headline-making work with woolly mice, dire wolves, mammoth research, gene drives, and artificial womb technology, while also exploring how these tools could help conservation, agriculture, and even human health.
What Ben Lamm Is Building
Ben Lamm explains that Colossal Biosciences is not just trying to “bring back” extinct animals for spectacle — it is building a broad synthetic biology platform that can:
- Reconstruct and edit genomes at scale
- Develop new tools for conservation biology
- Create spillover technologies for agriculture, climate, and medicine
- Explore de-extinction as a flagship use case for a much larger engineering stack
His core argument: the animal itself is the headline, but the real product is the technology platform that makes it possible.
Key Scientific Projects Discussed
Woolly mice
One of the first major proof-of-concept successes was engineering “woolly mice” with mammoth-like traits. Ben says they identified the genes tied to hair texture, length, and density, edited them into mice, and got healthy animals that matched the predicted phenotype.
Dire wolves
The episode spends substantial time on Colossal’s dire wolf project, which produced animals publicly named Romulus and Remus. Ben describes how:
- Ancient DNA from a tooth and skull fragments was used
- The team aligned those fragments with gray wolf genomes
- They identified genes associated with the dire wolf’s coat, size, and other traits
- The project generated intense public reaction and debate
He frames the dire wolf as a milestone in genome engineering, even while acknowledging critics who argue the animals are still genetically modified gray wolves rather than “true” dire wolves.
Woolly mammoth work
Ben walks through why cloning a mammoth directly is impossible:
- No viable living mammoth cells exist
- Ancient DNA is fragmented and degraded
- The team has to assemble genomes from many samples over long time spans
Instead of cloning, Colossal is engineering elephant cells toward mammoth-like phenotypes, with an eventual goal of producing animals that can survive in Arctic-like environments and potentially contribute to ecosystem restoration.
How Colossal Works
Ben describes Colossal’s approach as a mix of:
- Comparative genomics
- AI-assisted modeling
- Developmental biology
- Cellular engineering
- Animal welfare oversight
- Regulatory coordination
A few major points:
- The company now has a large scientific team and collaborations with many universities
- It works with conservation groups, governments, and regulatory bodies
- It runs genetic screening after editing to avoid off-target effects
- It is building systems for reproductive technologies, including artificial wombs and artificial eggs
Broader Applications Beyond De-Extinction
A major theme is that Colossal’s technologies are generating valuable spin-off businesses and practical applications.
Plastic degradation
Ben discusses a spinoff focused on breaking down plastics using engineered microbial enzyme systems. The team has improved the speed of degradation dramatically and is exploring uses in:
- Textile waste
- Composting
- Water treatment
- Industrial cleanup
Drug discovery and computational biology
He also highlights other spinoffs, including platforms for drug discovery and ancestral state reconstruction, which he argues could be valuable on their own without the de-extinction mission.
Gene drives for invasive species
Ben is especially interested in gene drives for invasive species control. He argues these could be useful for:
- Mosquito control in specific environments
- Screw worm eradication in Texas
- Managing invasive species that damage ecosystems, agriculture, and biodiversity
He distinguishes between invasive species and native species, saying the former are a more defensible use case for gene drive technology.
Ethics and Controversies
The conversation directly addresses the criticism Colossal receives.
“Are these really the species?”
Ben acknowledges that critics question whether these are truly mammoths or dire wolves, versus genetically modified proxy animals. His view is pragmatic:
- Species boundaries are fuzzy
- The important thing is the phenotypes and ecological function
- The debate over names may never fully go away
Germline editing
He and the hosts discuss human germline editing, which is currently broadly moratoriumed. Ben says he is cautious about human enhancement but supports using gene editing to eradicate severe diseases like:
- Sickle cell
- Tay-Sachs
- Other inherited disorders
Safety and transparency
Ben repeatedly emphasizes:
- No secret human-health work
- No non-human primate projects
- Strong animal welfare standards
- Careful screening for harmful edits
- Collaboration with experts and regulators
Notable Takeaways
- De-extinction is the headline, but platform technology is the real business.
- Colossal’s work is already producing practical spinoffs in plastics, computation, and drug discovery.
- Gene editing can help conservation, but also raises serious ethical and ecological questions.
- Artificial wombs and eggs may be foundational for future de-extinction and species preservation work.
- Ben sees the company as a long-term infrastructure play for programmable life, not just a novelty project.
Tone and Standout Moments
The episode is equal parts science talk, tech vision, and playful disbelief. The hosts are repeatedly stunned by how far the science has progressed, especially around:
- The idea of “woolly mice”
- The dire wolf pups
- The possibility of mammoth-like animals
- The implications of engineering life at this scale
Ben comes across as highly ambitious, unusually optimistic, and comfortable with public controversy.
Bottom Line
Ben Lamm presents Colossal Biosciences as a company trying to turn de-extinction into a real engineering discipline. The mission is part conservation, part biotech platform, and part moonshot science. Whether the end result is mammoths, dire wolves, or better tools for saving endangered species, the episode argues that synthetic biology is moving from theory into tangible reality.